Q-L804, current status of one of the Q Nordic subclades

Q-L804 is one of the two subclades of Q considered Nordic (the other is Q-L527). It is special because it’s sibling subclade is the Q-M3 originating in the Americas.

2015-04-18 M930

The common origin is Q-M930; the two subclades have a most recent common ancestor (MRCA) about 15,000 years ago.

There is an unbroken sequence of SNPs on this Q Nordic branch from 15,000 ybp (years before present) to 3,000 ybp. Not one single split. Branches may very well exist but they have not yet been found.

11 BigY kits

So far 11 BigY kits have been gathered from the Q-L804 subclade. All but two have been deeper analyzed by the Yfull service.

These are the current branches of the Q-L804 subclade:

2015-04-26 Q-L804

The presented ages of the subclades are the SNP based estimations made by Yfull.com, published in their experimental tree (v.3.8), slightly rounded in some cases.

The Pearson kit (far left) is still waiting for it’s BigY. Pearson is known to belong to the L807+ subclade of L804 so it will be interesting to see where the Pearson branch joins the other L804 branches.

Origin of L804

So where was the origin of the mutation L804? Mapping the origins of the ancestors might give a clue.

2015-04-18 L804 map

The map shows the locations for the most distant ancestor (MDA) for each BigY sample, with the corresponding terminal SNP.

It is indeed possible to draw two curves on the map which in a  reasonable way may show how the migration could av taken place. They are in no way intended to tell the truth, just to demonstrate a scenario not unlikely to have happend.

According to this map, the L804 might have an origin at the Atlantic coast of central Norway. From there it might have spread to central and northern Sweden and to Scotland and England.

SNP testing suggestions


The subclade is best explored by having as many individuals testing BigY as possible. Ordering a BigY will give not only known SNPs but novels that can be matched with other kits to form new branches.

If you want to pinpoint your exact position in the tree and contribute to its expansion with new branches and twigs you should order BigY.

Single SNP testing

An alternative to BigY is to order tests of single SNPs. You won’t explore any new branches by this but it will give a rough idea of where you belong.

Some of the SNPs are available for testing at FTDNA (marked *). Others are available at Yseq.net (marked **).

2015-04-26 L804 SNP testing

All branches of L804 can be tested. There seems to be a geographical pattern which might be used as a start for selecting the right SNP to test.

So far this is valid as a first step if it is likely that you belong to the L804 subclade:

  • Test BY386 if your paternal origin is British.
  • Test BY460 if your paternal origin is central Sweden or eastern Norway.
  • Test JN13 (Yseq.net) if your paternal origin is the Norwegian Atlantic coast
  • Test Y10787 (yseq.net) if your paternal origin is northern Sweden (Ångermanland, Västerbotten)

A SNP test can deliver either a positive or a negative result, both giving experience and a deeper knowledge. So don’t be too disappointed if the test doesn’t turn out the way you expected. It will still be very interesting for the project and it will help in deciding which SNP you should try next.

Jakob Norstedt, Admin Q Nordic project
E-mail: jakob@hoijen.se

Q Nordic project: http://www.familytreedna.com/groups/qnordic


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