Författararkiv: jakobnm

Inte alla Norstedt stammar från Höjen, vissa tillhör I1-L813 FGC9493+

Tidigare blogginlägg har visat att släkten Norstedt från Höjen utanför Falun karakteriseras av haplogrupp I1-L1302, närmare bestämt I1-BY211 eller I1-BY2828.

Men alla Norstedt hör inte till denna släkt. Jonas Olsson som bodde 50km bort tog också namnet Norstedt. Han föddes vid Larsbo bruk, Söderbärke, 1723-07-18 och fick många ättlingar.

Nu har två nu levande från olika grenar testat sitt Y-DNA. Haplogruppen är inte slutligt bestämd ännu, men av allt att döma tillhör de haplogrupp I1-L813.  Så här ser deras grenar till den senaste gemensamma anan Johan Norstedt och den mest avlägsna anan Jonas Ersson ut.


Norstedt från Larsbo – I1-L813

Resultaten finns i Norstedt-projektet.

Det finns alltså nu två DNA-testade åtskilda Norstedtsläkter

  • Norstedt från Höjen – haplogrupp I1-BY211
  • Norstedt från Larsbo – haplogrupp I1-L813


I1-BY211 och I1-L813 tillhör båda huvudgruppen I1 men är därefter mycket avlägset släkt. De beräknas ha en gemensam ana som levde för c:a 4700 år sedan. ISOGG-trädet för I1 finns här.

Uppdatering: SNP-test har visat att de är FGC9493+, en undergren till L813 (2017-01-14). 

Jakob Norstedt

Q-L804 – Current status 2016-01-29

by Jakob Norstedt, admin Q Nordic project
E-mail: jakob@hoijen.se

Q-L804 is one of the two subclades forming the Q Nordic project (the other is Q-L527).

This is Q-L804’s position in relation to it’s neighbors:

Q-L804 and it's neighbor clades with time estimates from Yfull for branching. ybp = Years before present

Q-L804 and it’s neighbor clades with time estimates from Yfull for branching. ybp = Years before present

Q-L804 is very independant. It’s closest neighbor clade is Q-M3 but their most recent common ancestor lived about 15,000 years ago. Q-M3’s members have Native American ancestry.

Just a little further away is the Q-Z780 subclade which also has members of Native American ancestry. The Anzick-1 boy buried in Montana, USA, 12,600 years ago and found in 1968 belonged to Q-Z780.

As far as we know now (data from Yfull), contemporary members of Q-M3 have an origin in countries like Peru, Colombia and Mexico and contemporary subclades of Q-Z780 are found in Mexico.

Branches of Q-L804

A total of 23 BigY samples have revealed a basic structure of Q-L804. So far we know three main branches:

Q-L804 and it's three branches

Q-L804 and it’s three branches

The branches all have a common ancestor who lived about 3100 years ago. There are about the same number of kits in each branch.

Distribution of the three branches

The known ancestors of the tested kits indicate different histories of the branches.

The three Q-L804 branches. Origin of BigY kits with known ancestry.

The three Q-L804 branches. Origin of BigY kits with known ancestry.

Q-JN15 Western Scandinavia

The branch defined by the SNP JN15 has members with ancestry from western Norway, Iceland, Britain, and France.

The Western Scandinavia branch of Q-L804.

The Western Scandinavia branch of Q-L804.

It seems reasonable to think that the diversity of nationalities reflects an expansion from Norway by Vikings and/or Normans. The Icelandic kit splits from the others a little later and has it’s genetically closest cousin in Geiranger, Møre og Romsdal, Norway.

The distance Geiranger - Iceland is about 1200 km

The distance Geiranger – Iceland is about 1200 km

Q-BY386 Britain

The British branch, defined by the SNP BY386, has kits from England and Scotland. In this branch there are also kits from USA with unknown but supposed British origin.

The British branch of Q-L804.

The British branch of Q-L804.

MacSwain, the Scottish kit at the far right of the chart, is the first to split from the others. Three tested kits with the surname Pearson is a part of this subclade. They are not yet fully analyzed at Yfull.

Q-BY469 Easter Scandinavia

The branch defined by the SNP BY469 has most of it’s members in Sweden.

The Eastern Scandinavia branch of Q-L804.

The Eastern Scandinavia branch of Q-L804.

There is also a kit with German ancestry (surname Frum) and a kit from Hedmark in Norway close to the Swedish border.

Link to the Q Nordic project

Link to Q-L804 at Yfull

Link to Q Nordic at Yseq

Link to overview for print (PDF)


I1-SwF cluster / I1-JN38 subclade – status 2015-10-08

SwF is a cluster with ancestry on both sides the Gulf of Bothnia

.Gulf of Bothnia

SwF was first identified by STR matches but recently a couple of BigY kits have made it possible to form a branch in the haplogroup tree defined by the SNP JN38/Y16813. Yfull currently displays two kits, at a new branch after I1-Z2337:

A third BigY kit has just been completed (not at Yfull yet) and a fourth twig has been formed by testing of single SNPs at Yseq.

I1-JN38 subclade

Link to PDF

Explanation of time estimates

A 4100 years since the most recent common ancestor of all men being Z2337+, according to Yfull estimates.

B 750 years since the common ancestor in this split lived, according to Yfull estimates.

C 1350 years since the common ancestor of this split, roughly based on four more SNPs compared to split B and about 150 years per SNP.

D 300 years to common ancestor of split based on Yseq results on CombBED SNPs, JN41-, JN43+, JN44+, JN46+, JN47-. 2 of 5 SNPs are negative over 750 years, dating the split to roughly 300 ybp.

The ancestry of kit #298918 is known back to year 1800, Örnsköldsvik Sweden. The oldest known ancestor of kit #N136156 lived in Viborg, Finland in the late 19th century. Based on this knowledge it is not likely that the split occured less than 250 years ago.

Jakob Norstedt-Moberg

Member of SSGG – Swedish Society for Genetic Genealogy

 Link to FamilyTreeDNA project I1-Z2336(xL22,M227)

Yfull tree

Link to Yseq data

Link to local copy of Yseq data


French Q-L804 subclade – trace of Normans?

The Scandinavian haplogroup Q-L804 has been expanded with a branch from Norway to the North Western France, close to Normandy. This happend when the BigY results for a kit with French origin came in last week. The results make it possible to believe that the new French kit has a Norman origin.


The Norwegian kits which are close to the French have their oldest known ancestors in Møre og Romsdal and Nord-Trøndelag in the 18th – 19th century while the French has it’s origin in Mayenne, Pays de la Loire, in the 17th century.

The current Yfull TMRCA indicates that they have a common ancestor about 1600 years before present which means that the migration should have occured in the centuries after the 5th century, with very wide margins. The Normands occupied what’s now Normandy in the beginning of the 10th century. The new French result is not yet included in the Yfull time estimate.

The current Q-L804 overview.

Q Nordic project

Q-L804 at Yfull


Fransk gren av Q-L804 – spår av normander?

Den skandinaviska haplogruppen Q-L804 har nu en gren från Norge till trakten av Normandie. Förgreningen från de norska “kusinerna” gör det möjligt att tro att det franska kitet har ett ursprung i norska normander.


De norska resultaten har äldsta kända anor i Møre og Romsdal och Nord-Trøndelag på 1700-1800-talet och det franska har sin äldsta kända ana i Mayenne, Pays de la Loire, på 1600-talet (Trotry de la Touche).

Enligt Yfulls hittillsvarande uppskattning (där det franska resultatet ännu inte finns med) har de en gemensam ana som ligger c:a 1600 år tillbaka vilket innebär att förgreningen bör ha skett under århundradena efter 400-talet. Normanderna ockuperade nuvarande landskapet Normandie i början av 900-talet.

Här finns den senaste översikten över Q-L804.

Q Nordic-projektet

Q-L804 hos Yfull


Testing Novel SNPs to define the most recent parts of my branch

Jakob Norstedt
E-mail: jakob@hoijen.se

Normally SNPs are very old, but some are indeed possible to use for the last few generations. This is what I did to find out the latest details of my branch.

I am I1, did once test Z73+ and L1302+, but it’s a long time since those were my terminal SNPs. I am one of the admins of the i1-Z73 subclade projects (I1-L1301/I1-L1302) where we have found many new branches and several new levels of terminal SNPs.

After a BigY/Yfull test of my 6th cousin a few months ago (YF03087) I was defined as I1-BY2828 in the Yfull experimental tree (I am YF01888). We have the mutation BY2828 in common.

2015-05-14 by2828

But Yfull also showed three remaining Novel SNPs of best or acceptable quality, personal SNPs that had occured on my line in the last few hundred years. Some time after the Most Recent Common Ancestor for me and my 6th cousin, Christoffer Norstedt b. 1672. I was curious to find out when.

2015-05-14 novel SNPs

I named the Novels JN01, JN02 and JN03 and wished them at Yseq.com.

JN01 wasn’t possible to test but JN02 and JN03 were made available for order at Yseq.

I swabbed my dad’s 1st cousin, sent the sample to Yseq, and now the result has come. The cousin is JN03+, but JN02-. I.e. JN03 occured before our common ancestor and JN02 after.

So now I know a little more about how my former Novel SNPs JN02 and JN03 are placed on my paternal line (some of the older SNPs are omitted, years of the older SNPs based on Yfull’s estimates):

2015-05-14 by147 line with novels

Q-L804, current status of one of the Q Nordic subclades

Q-L804 is one of the two subclades of Q considered Nordic (the other is Q-L527). It is special because it’s sibling subclade is the Q-M3 originating in the Americas.

2015-04-18 M930

The common origin is Q-M930; the two subclades have a most recent common ancestor (MRCA) about 15,000 years ago.

There is an unbroken sequence of SNPs on this Q Nordic branch from 15,000 ybp (years before present) to 3,000 ybp. Not one single split. Branches may very well exist but they have not yet been found.

11 BigY kits

So far 11 BigY kits have been gathered from the Q-L804 subclade. All but two have been deeper analyzed by the Yfull service.

These are the current branches of the Q-L804 subclade:

2015-04-26 Q-L804

The presented ages of the subclades are the SNP based estimations made by Yfull.com, published in their experimental tree (v.3.8), slightly rounded in some cases.

The Pearson kit (far left) is still waiting for it’s BigY. Pearson is known to belong to the L807+ subclade of L804 so it will be interesting to see where the Pearson branch joins the other L804 branches.

Origin of L804

So where was the origin of the mutation L804? Mapping the origins of the ancestors might give a clue.

2015-04-18 L804 map

The map shows the locations for the most distant ancestor (MDA) for each BigY sample, with the corresponding terminal SNP.

It is indeed possible to draw two curves on the map which in a  reasonable way may show how the migration could av taken place. They are in no way intended to tell the truth, just to demonstrate a scenario not unlikely to have happend.

According to this map, the L804 might have an origin at the Atlantic coast of central Norway. From there it might have spread to central and northern Sweden and to Scotland and England.

SNP testing suggestions


The subclade is best explored by having as many individuals testing BigY as possible. Ordering a BigY will give not only known SNPs but novels that can be matched with other kits to form new branches.

If you want to pinpoint your exact position in the tree and contribute to its expansion with new branches and twigs you should order BigY.

Single SNP testing

An alternative to BigY is to order tests of single SNPs. You won’t explore any new branches by this but it will give a rough idea of where you belong.

Some of the SNPs are available for testing at FTDNA (marked *). Others are available at Yseq.net (marked **).

2015-04-26 L804 SNP testing

All branches of L804 can be tested. There seems to be a geographical pattern which might be used as a start for selecting the right SNP to test.

So far this is valid as a first step if it is likely that you belong to the L804 subclade:

  • Test BY386 if your paternal origin is British.
  • Test BY460 if your paternal origin is central Sweden or eastern Norway.
  • Test JN13 (Yseq.net) if your paternal origin is the Norwegian Atlantic coast
  • Test Y10787 (yseq.net) if your paternal origin is northern Sweden (Ångermanland, Västerbotten)

A SNP test can deliver either a positive or a negative result, both giving experience and a deeper knowledge. So don’t be too disappointed if the test doesn’t turn out the way you expected. It will still be very interesting for the project and it will help in deciding which SNP you should try next.

Jakob Norstedt, Admin Q Nordic project
E-mail: jakob@hoijen.se

Q Nordic project: http://www.familytreedna.com/groups/qnordic

Västerås Gymnasium

Jag besökte stadsarkivet i Västerås häromdagen för att leta efter ett par släktingar. De hade spårlöst försvunnit ur husförhörslängden med bara kommentaren “Gymnasist” och jag misstänkte att de fanns här. Och mycket riktigt, de läste på Västerås Gymnasium.

De jag letade efter var tvillingarna Daniel Holm (f. 1751-09-24) och Andreas Holm (f. 1751-09-23) från Hosjö, Vika, Dalarna, samt Daniel Åsberg (f. 1754-01-31) från Åsbo, Vika, Dalarna. Dessutom Johan Norstedt (f. 1813-02-15), Höjen, Stora Kopparberg, Dalarna.

Alla fyra fann jag i arkivet. Dels i de tryckta skolmatriklarna:

Dels i handskrivna loggböcker:



Daniel Åsberg från Åsbo, Hosjö

Jag topsade en sjumänning i Nordmaling igår.

När jag för några månader sedan först stötte på anfadern utan att veta att han var släkt med mig så tyckte jag redan då att det var intressant. Det var Daniel Åsberg som flyttade från Hosjö, Dalarna, till Nordmaling och blev inspektor för Öre såg på 1770-talet. Jag har nämligen också min faderslinje från Hosjö och min farfarsfar flyttade även han upp till bygden kring Öreälvens mynning. Fast det var mer än hundra år senare.

Sen när jag tittade lite närmare på Daniel Åsberg så insåg jag plötsligt att hans far ju fanns med även i mitt träd.

Jag undrar just om min farfarsfar i slutet av 1800-talet hörde talas om sin släkting några generationer tidigare och som ung pojke medvetet drog iväg till hans trakt. Ganska troligt tycker jag men inget som varit känt i släkten tidigare.